I've been through all the posts and don't see my question so I figured I'd start a new post to introduce myself. My name is Brian and I'm a General class operator. I'm a former radio officer for my town's RACES team but my interest in ham radio lies in experimenting and minimum necessary, hence why I've fallen for QRP. I've only recently gotten into POTA and have yet to actually operate my (tr)uSDX somewhere other than my QTH. Believe me, I've tried and have already lost a weight and about 15 feet of line.
I know this has been touched on in some of Thomas's videos but I've yet to understand what kind of tree to look for when scouting an activation spot. What should I be looking for? Are certain species of tree better or more forgiving than others? I lost my last weight in an evergreen when the metal loop on the weight got caught on a small branch. I understand about more dense or less dense foliage, but does bark come into play at all? I am using quality Weaver gear but don't feel like buying it over and over again if I can't choose he right tree. Or am I just overthinking this?
Throw Lines and trees
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Brian - K3ES
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2022 12:55 pm
- Location: NW Pennsylvania
Re: Throw Lines and trees
Hi Brian,
Another Brian here. I live in northwestern Pennsylvania, so I have a lot of trees around. Also, I most often use wire antennas, because they are light and compact, which suits my style of activating. I frequently use throwlines to deploy my antennas. My favorite throwline kit is an 8-ish ounce arborist throw bag connected to Marlow Excel 2mm throw line, all contained in a compact stuff sack. Other types work, but that is what I settled on. I'm not an expert, just a practiced amateur.
When possible, I prefer to find a more open tree, with its lowest branch high enough to support my antenna. I try not to pull my antenna wire over tree branches, but instead I use the throw line to hoist up the antenna wire. I have worked with a linked dipole, a variety of end-fed half waves, and end-fed random wires of various lengths. Hoisting the antenna to an inverted V configuration permits me to lower and raise it quickly, if I need to manipulate links to switch bands.
Evergreens can be a problem, because younger evergreens often have very dense foliage, which can create a lot of friction on the line as your weight is falling back down. In fact, you may want to use a heavier (10 - 14 oz) throw bag to make sure it comes all the way down. Though I will say that my favorite antenna tree is an old-growth Eastern Hemlock (that has to be over 150 ft tall). This tree has several stubs from dead branches, between 30 and 40 ft above the ground, easily caught with a line, and without obstructions below. The region of the tree that I use does not have dense foliage.
Many of the areas where I operate have mature forest, so undergrowth does not obstruct antenna deployment, but this is not always the case. When your operating area has under-story growth, you need to study the area for sloper or inverted V deployment. Low trees can cause problems when deploying the wire or retrieving it.
I have never had the ring on my throw bag get caught on a branch, and I suspect that you were very unlucky with your first attempt. Let me make a few suggestions to make life with a throw line easier.
1. Before deploying your throw line, ALWAYS LOOK UP to make sure there are no power lines anywhere near your throw range. I have made some spectacularly bad throws, and POWER LINES ARE DEADLY.
2. If you make a bad throw, detach the throw bag before you pull the line back through a tree. If you pull the throw bag back with the line, it will act like a crazy pendulum. Sooner or later, it will loop around a branch and become unretrievable.
3. If you use a compact stuff bag, learn how to wind your line onto your thumb and pinky finger in a figure-8 pattern. Get a handful of figure-8s and stuff that into the bag, then repeat until your line is stowed. It is really time consuming to try to stuff line into a compact bag foot by foot.
I wish you success in activating, and I hope to get you in my log! Feel free to ask any questions. There are a lot of experienced folks here who will be happy to help.
Best 73 de Brian - K3ES
Another Brian here. I live in northwestern Pennsylvania, so I have a lot of trees around. Also, I most often use wire antennas, because they are light and compact, which suits my style of activating. I frequently use throwlines to deploy my antennas. My favorite throwline kit is an 8-ish ounce arborist throw bag connected to Marlow Excel 2mm throw line, all contained in a compact stuff sack. Other types work, but that is what I settled on. I'm not an expert, just a practiced amateur.
When possible, I prefer to find a more open tree, with its lowest branch high enough to support my antenna. I try not to pull my antenna wire over tree branches, but instead I use the throw line to hoist up the antenna wire. I have worked with a linked dipole, a variety of end-fed half waves, and end-fed random wires of various lengths. Hoisting the antenna to an inverted V configuration permits me to lower and raise it quickly, if I need to manipulate links to switch bands.
Evergreens can be a problem, because younger evergreens often have very dense foliage, which can create a lot of friction on the line as your weight is falling back down. In fact, you may want to use a heavier (10 - 14 oz) throw bag to make sure it comes all the way down. Though I will say that my favorite antenna tree is an old-growth Eastern Hemlock (that has to be over 150 ft tall). This tree has several stubs from dead branches, between 30 and 40 ft above the ground, easily caught with a line, and without obstructions below. The region of the tree that I use does not have dense foliage.
Many of the areas where I operate have mature forest, so undergrowth does not obstruct antenna deployment, but this is not always the case. When your operating area has under-story growth, you need to study the area for sloper or inverted V deployment. Low trees can cause problems when deploying the wire or retrieving it.
I have never had the ring on my throw bag get caught on a branch, and I suspect that you were very unlucky with your first attempt. Let me make a few suggestions to make life with a throw line easier.
1. Before deploying your throw line, ALWAYS LOOK UP to make sure there are no power lines anywhere near your throw range. I have made some spectacularly bad throws, and POWER LINES ARE DEADLY.
2. If you make a bad throw, detach the throw bag before you pull the line back through a tree. If you pull the throw bag back with the line, it will act like a crazy pendulum. Sooner or later, it will loop around a branch and become unretrievable.
3. If you use a compact stuff bag, learn how to wind your line onto your thumb and pinky finger in a figure-8 pattern. Get a handful of figure-8s and stuff that into the bag, then repeat until your line is stowed. It is really time consuming to try to stuff line into a compact bag foot by foot.
I wish you success in activating, and I hope to get you in my log! Feel free to ask any questions. There are a lot of experienced folks here who will be happy to help.
Best 73 de Brian - K3ES
Re: Throw Lines and trees
Brian,
I'll echo Brian's comments: I look for a branch of the height I want without a lot of obstructions between it and me. And I definitely avoid evergreens: they're too thick and things get stuck. I prefer trees that are tall enough and old enough to have shed most of their lower branches.
I followed advice I saw on QRPer: https://qrper.com/2022/08/arborist-thro ... eld-radio/
The Marlow KF1050 Excel 2mm Throwline is magical stuff: just like the "elven rope" in the Lord of the Rings. It stays tied when you want it to, and (almost) never gets caught anywhere. It's a little abrasive and will saw its way through small twigs that are really problematic. (Or your skin if you try to guide/grab it after throwing!). It's also very strong.
I cut mine in half (25m) based on the advice of the article above. That's almost the limit of how high I can throw it. Occasionally I wish I had left it a little longer (30m?) -- but then the remainder would have been useless. I store my weight and line in a small, square rubbermade container that packs easily in my pota bag and provides a smooth surface for deployment.
Also following Brian, I learned the hard way never to pull my antenna lines through trees. Now that I mostly use DavisRF polystealth (stout wires!), it's not such an issue. But once or twice I've had lesser wires get caught up in trees and break when I tried to pull them down. I hate, hate, hate, leaving wire in trees. So now only the throw-line goes through the tree, and the wire simply goes up to where the throw-line meets a branch.
What Brian said about pulling back a throw you're not happy with is true: pulling the weight back in through the tree is fraught with risk. Feeding it down to the ground, loosing the weight, and then pulling the line back through the tree to start again is the way to go.
I operate POTA as much as anything else I do in radio, and I love a good, simple, lightweight homemade wire antenna pulled up high into a tree.
GL es 72 de Todd W2TEF
ed: s/it's/its when not a contraction
I'll echo Brian's comments: I look for a branch of the height I want without a lot of obstructions between it and me. And I definitely avoid evergreens: they're too thick and things get stuck. I prefer trees that are tall enough and old enough to have shed most of their lower branches.
I followed advice I saw on QRPer: https://qrper.com/2022/08/arborist-thro ... eld-radio/
The Marlow KF1050 Excel 2mm Throwline is magical stuff: just like the "elven rope" in the Lord of the Rings. It stays tied when you want it to, and (almost) never gets caught anywhere. It's a little abrasive and will saw its way through small twigs that are really problematic. (Or your skin if you try to guide/grab it after throwing!). It's also very strong.
I cut mine in half (25m) based on the advice of the article above. That's almost the limit of how high I can throw it. Occasionally I wish I had left it a little longer (30m?) -- but then the remainder would have been useless. I store my weight and line in a small, square rubbermade container that packs easily in my pota bag and provides a smooth surface for deployment.
Also following Brian, I learned the hard way never to pull my antenna lines through trees. Now that I mostly use DavisRF polystealth (stout wires!), it's not such an issue. But once or twice I've had lesser wires get caught up in trees and break when I tried to pull them down. I hate, hate, hate, leaving wire in trees. So now only the throw-line goes through the tree, and the wire simply goes up to where the throw-line meets a branch.
What Brian said about pulling back a throw you're not happy with is true: pulling the weight back in through the tree is fraught with risk. Feeding it down to the ground, loosing the weight, and then pulling the line back through the tree to start again is the way to go.
I operate POTA as much as anything else I do in radio, and I love a good, simple, lightweight homemade wire antenna pulled up high into a tree.
GL es 72 de Todd W2TEF
ed: s/it's/its when not a contraction